Meanwhile, a war is ongoing between China and Japan in Asia. Then, the British North African forces push back to Tunisia as a second American Army pushes from Morocco, but this time with massive air cover coming from Spain and the Med. To troops, the Spaniards are a crew of ragamuffins. No, the US lands directly in Portugal and frees it from Axis rule and then swiftly crushes what's left in Spain of the Axis Spain. That is pretty much it, it would probably be important but would absolutely not mean a change of who would win the war. This was a possibility in 1940: Stalin, Molotov, and Ribbentrop were all said to be for this alliance. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. Portugal once Spain had joined the Axis would if not joining straight away, have given all asked resources plus some airbases and harbors. Post by Ebusitanus » 28 Mar 2002, 06:27 Here … save. In our Timeline, Britain was an important part of the allies of WW2. The United States decides to not enter the war. The fourth time they joined Italy's faction because I eradicated Germany in 36'. By ARPS123 Watch. The answer would depend very much on when Brazil joined the axis. Archived. I am curious whether or not any ... anti-semitism etc... were all defining characteristics of both societies. What if USA joined the Axis instead of the Allies during WW2? Turkey : after the successful Balkans invasion, they were contiguous with the Axis and might have aspired to have Ottoman land back under their control with a … Francoist Spain doesn't count, since they are the obvious first choice in such a scenario. Spain was woefully prepared for any kind of fighting. But what if Britain had joined the Axis Powers in WW2? It would have been devastating for the Spanish populace at great human cost, but it probably would have saved Spain a good 20 or 30 years of living under fascism. Rommel commanding 10 well equipped divisions would have rocked the Brits. The Germans would most likely ignore Spain when the allies try to conquer Spain since it didn't hold any crucial battleground (it'll be like Italy surrendering in a matter of days). Eventually the US invades Spain rather than France and then drives through Southern France. but in terms of military, they would be very weak since they recently got out of a civil war. D-Day is not as successful or doesn't even happen. Eventually they will succeed, and then prepare for Russia. And if they did join the axis then we would most likely see Franco execution (war trials). As an 'africanist' soldier, Franco had fought most of his military life in Morocco, and in the event of the French defeat, he expected to receive from Hitler a piece of France's north african colonies considerable enough to join the Axis. At worst, the Spanish becomes a dead albatross hanging around the German necks. Long-term, joining the Axis would be a disaster for Franco’s career. However, there still would not have been a very big power change in Europe. They regard a rifle as an instrument that should not be cleaned under any pretext. The number of casualties it sustained during that period is historically accurate, as is the name of its commander and the award he received. On the other hand, Spanish firms like Star and Astra produced enormous numbers of low cost pistols up through the late 90s, although their reputation for reliability is a mixed bag and nothing like other European firms like Glock, Beretta, Sig, or HK. In the words of a friend of mine who has studied the issue, Spain was "reluctant to leave the fence." What if France joined the Axis Powers and wins WW2. Most of them were withdrawn in 1943, but a few thousand joined the Waffen-SS as the smaller Legion Azul with Franco’s blessing. report. Vote. They actually joined, but made a siesta throughout the war. So, things could have been very different. The Cold War if Spain joined the Axis Powers. While I would like Spain to join the Axis less often, I would prefer that they stay fascist. This is because an Axis invasion of Spain would have certainly meant an Allied invasion to liberate the Peninsula. But nothing too crucial. 100% Upvoted. Leading from this what if the Soviet Union becomes a full fledged member of the Axis Powers in June 1941 and joins Germany and Italy in their war against Britain in the Middle East and North Africa through Iran attacking British forces in Iraq. Six months later, December 1941, Japan attacks the United States at Pearl Harbour. hide. Close. Funny question. First, Portugal joins the Allies seeing a dire threat of invasion from Axis Spain and Germany. If you were using 1.9.1 and not 1.9.2 (likely, since it was just released yesterday), you should restart with this new, latest version. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I will mention as the US land, Republican forces rise up all over Spain. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Gibraltar was a hell of a fortress from all sides), but then be over extended. Spain had gotten German support during the Civil War and with sufficient promises of arms and territory in Africa, they might have joined. Presumably, in such a scenario in which Americans or British troops liberated Spain from Franco and then later from Nazi invasion, the Allies would have very likely restored the Second Republic or at least some kind of democratic government that was more favorable to Allied interests. Germany is now fighting in Spain.Southern France, Southern Italy, Getting pushed back in Russia, and then England and Canada mount a landing in Northern France, supported by some American Troops (most US troops are slogging up the boot or spreading across Provence). i.redd.it/42dmkj... 0 comments. After that, Germany needs to pour troops into Spain to deal with Portugal and the Allies and has no time to head into Russia at this time. I’d have to estimate that Spanish troops would probably exhibit these same qualities in other areas, and that their courage only works in their favor when they’re equipped with modern high quality weapons. Iraq, Iran and maybe Turkey would have become Axis nations. 29 Favourites 4 Comments 708 Views. This didn’t especially change with the 1980s CETME-L, which is itself a pretty competent design that suffered from build quality issues. I actually think it could have had a pretty significant impact, though maybe not enough to turn the course of the war. Fransico Franco the leader of Spain after the Spanish Civil War (aka El Caudillo) had similar political views as Hitler and Mussolini and had come very close to joining Germany and Italy after the fall of France and even let Germany use Spanish ports. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. However, in April 1840, Japan launches a surprise attack on the United States, bombing the American Naval Base at Pearl Harbor to make it more dificult for the US to prevent planned Japanese actions in the rest of the P… If all plans in the east happened the same, Germany would have lost along with Spain. share. When the Russians arrive, the natives have to wake them up. Their sentries exist only in principle. What would have happened? Surprisingly not a lot. This probably means that Spain would become a democracy quicker in history than usual when the war ended. Wouldn't surprise me at all if once Africa is retaken from the Italian/German armies that the Allied forces invade southern Spain and force the two front war earlier. I'm not sure the theory that Spain would have made a large contribution is correct. Posted by 1 year ago. Immediate implications include the threatened s Argentina joins the Axis, 1939 - NavWeaps Forums Germany gets a large population, half of which hates it, that needs to be fed, petrol supplied, large coast lines that needed guarding. But the Spaniards have never yielded an inch of ground. The war would have lasted longer for sure but I actually think that for Spain, in the long run, their fortunes would have been better. In most cases, the only thing to change is that Gibraltar falls, but it opens up an even softer underbelly of Europe as the Spanish are very little prepared for full mobilization and total war. In 1939, a major war breaks out in Europe, pitting Italy and Germany against Britain and France. Could anyone explain the exact process of inviting Nationalist Spain into the Axis, with the 2 Focuses of Germany and UK, World Tension, time after the SCW, national spirit and all. A Falangist Blue Division did serve on the Eastern Front until mid-1943. If anything Spain would be a burden to the nazis, since they have another front to worry about. but in terms of military, they would be very weak since they recently got out of a civil war. 5 comments. Then on to Sicily and southern Italy. The Spanish CETME rifle was a German design based on the prototype StG-45(M) that employed a roller-delayed blowback system rather than a conventional piston. This includes conflict all over Europe, with Russia also invading Poland, and Russia. When the US gets involved, they don't screw around with a year long build up in England or struggling in the Kasserine Pass. hide. In the short-term, however, Spain could not anger Germany by siding with the Allies. report. I would foresee Germans growing impatient with Franco's intransigence and political maneuverings and possibly invaded Spain just to have total control and access of the Mediterranean corridor, similar to what they did in Italy near the end of the war. The Germans later adopted the same CETME as the G3 in 1959, and the German versions (and other local examples, they were adopted in about 40 countries and manufactured in about 18 of them) are often regarded as superior to the Spanish ones in build quality. They were probabily still recovering from 3 years of brutal civil war but how would history look if Franco was able to compltely unite the country behind the Axis powers and join Hitler and Mussolini and not be bribed by MI6? Close. The Germans invaded Greece after the Greeks joined … Sort by. Top. We're here to explore alternate history scenarios in interesting ways. IF they did move into North Africa, they would be hopelessly out maneuvered and chronically short on supplies against even local resistance, let alone a division or two of allied troops. share. The War lasted from 1939 to 1944. Call it Op Olive. As late as December 1942, Franco believed that at the right moment, Spain would join the war on the side of the Axis Powers. But just as Greece bled off troops for Barbarossa, so does the Iberian Campaign, and Hitler's invasion of Russia goes about as well as Napoleon's. If anything Spain would be a burden to the nazis, since they have another front to worry about. I saw in my other games AI can invite them to join Axis. Posted by just now. Ebusitanus Member Posts: 527 Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 19:12. Yet, he didn't join the Axis during the Second World War? save. Hitler’s attempt to woo Spain’s new fascist dictator Francisco Franco failed: Spain had not yet recovered from its This thread is archived. 19 votes, 10 comments. Spain was still recovering from their civil war and was not a super power in Europe like that of Germany during this period of history. If Spain did join the axis powers then Spain would most likely be more of a supply provider (resources,food,weapons etc.) One can't imagine more fearless fellows. Germany/Spain captures Gibraltar, forcing all transport between UK and the empire to go around Africa and makes supplying Malta/africa more difficult *Meaby some (low quality) troops from Spain could be used elsewhere. Hitler was strongly … Having total access to the Strait of Gibraltar would have been an enormous tactical advantage for the German navy. It's not clear which version of the game you were using exactly at the time you were playing and Spain joined Axis. England lands some troops into Portugal, and France likely also sends troops South (this of course likely furthers the Fall of France, but they wouldn't know that). Surprisingly not a lot. I know, in any case, that our men are always glad to have Spaniards as neighbours in their sector. The Cold War if Spain joined the Axis Powers. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Welcome to HistoryWhatIf! Looking at this situation post 1941 my first choice would be to prepare to secure Spanish Morroco. I completed the national focus Befriend Spain but did not worked. However, the poorly equipped Italians needed to be rescued by the Germans in 1941 after suffering defeats by the Greeks and by the British in Libya and East Africa. The Second Republic in exile had been calling for Allied intervention/assistance to defeat Franco ever since they were driven from Spain after the Civil War in 1939. They scarcely take cover. We're here to explore alternate history scenarios in interesting ways. The US could have joined the Axis sans Japanese attack. Press J to jump to the feed. It just needed the right people in power to do so. After the fall of France, the Wehrmacht could quickly invade and occupy Spain. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. 1. france germany italy japan alternatehistory alternateuniverse axispowers. Germany now has four fronts, no allies, and and a Eastern Europe wondering if it would be better to rebel now or wait for the Russians. Many biographies of Franco recount the many demands he made of Hitler, in order that Spain "sign on" with the Axis … New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HistoryWhatIf community. They flout death. Long story short it probably wouldn't change much. When France does Fall, Portugal will likely offer refuge for the French Navy and the French Army in Spain, and probably gets them, as the Free French forces were debating staying loyal to Vichy France or fighting on. What if Spain joined the Axis. Log in or sign up to leave a comment Log In Sign Up. The Germans coveted Gibraltar as a tactical advantage but they put far too much confidence in Vichy France as being the superior tactical ally in control for the Mediterranean. When Vichy France proved poor as an ally, Spain looked more tempting. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HistoryWhatIf community. If Spain did join the axis powers then Spain would most likely be more of a supply provider (resources,food,weapons etc.) We would have had a completely different war. It may have lead to battles at Gibraltar for access to the Mediterranean, which may have gave Italy some more success there. As an add-on, the Spanish Division Azul did go to war in Russia alongside the Germans in 1941, but they fought in German uniform with German weapons. Britain's colonies such as Australia, New Zealand, India and Canada, joins WW2 on the side of the Axis powers. If Spain joined up Italy and Germany after the fall of France the Axis would send more divisions to the Middle East. Franco was supported by Germany and Italy during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). This timeline is my version of a alternate WW2. Welcome to HistoryWhatIf! The Nazis had drawn up several plans for this possible invasion- Operation Felix and Operation Isabella specifically, which were all plans designed to fortify the Peninsula against a possible British seizure. Does relations between GER, Spain and UK matter? That's what I said upthread. First of all, look at this beautiful map of WW2 alliances: Portugal and Spain do stand out for remaining neutral (alongside Sweden and Switzerland). Unfortunately, Spanish industry was probably not capable of producing them in the quantity and quality needed to fight alongside the Germans at the time. An interesting scenario would be what-if Argentina joined the Axis powers just on the outbreak of WW2? They had just exited one of the most devastating civil wars in modern history (at least to that point), many cites still lay in runs, their industry was nearly gone (between bombing, destruction, and economic hardship) and the people were still struggling with hunger and food production. 67% Upvoted. Is there any tips to invite them to axis? But i did not able to do it. Germany rushes troops to the Pyrenees to plug the Allies in. In my four games that have had a Nationalist Spain, they have joined the Axis three times. Arguably, this didn’t really change postwar. But the Germans wouldn't have had any more U-Boats than they would had Spain not joined the war, so the Germans would have to decide whether they wanted to concentrate their subs on the Atlantic or to divide them between North and South. The reason why Franco's Spain didn't joined the Axis has a pronounced imperialist background. What if Spain joined the Axis. As you have rightfully pointed out, Franco did almost join the Axis in the war, including sending a fairly large contingent of Spanish volunteers to fight in the Eastern Front alongside Wehrmacht troops. Exactly how large or broad that op might be depends on if the French NW African colonies are still nuetral, or Axis territory. 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